Monday, September 24, 2007

This Breed Sounds Great!

Ok, I did a little reading up on the Cavachon (ok, like 5 minutes of looking at pictures and a couple of breeder websites), and this breed looks awesome!

First off, how cute are they?

Second, they sound really sweet. From my preliminary research, they are basically loving lap dogs. They don't bark and they are most likely hypo-allergenic. What's not to like? Well we'll see next month, I guess.


Jenna Z said...

I would like to (nicely) point out that this is not a breed. It's a mixed breed, basically a mutt. There will be no consistency between litters and you could end up with any number of Cavalier traits and Bichon traits in each dog produced. One big issue with these mixed breeds is that no one with health-checked, sound purebred dogs would mix breeds. So what are you left with that is being bred to create these? The back yard breeders and the puppy mills supplying pet stores, where most of these designer dogs are purchased. As the saying goes "Want a designer dog? Try your local shelter."

JuLo said...

Yes, thank you for the comment. I realize the differences between pure breed and "mixed breed" dogs, and what that means in terms of looks/behavior/health/etc., and I pointed out some of these same things in an eariler post (or in the comments somewhere). I should have restated them here. That's a good point. In fact, I've also stated before, that's my main issue with the poodle mixes. I'm really not a poodle person, so I don't think I'll ever go for a poodle mix for fear of getting too much poodle.

I've actually come across quite a lot of breeder's websites who sell "hybrid breeds", which I agree, are nothing more than mutts (but they're purposeful mutts). They sell both purebred and mixed breed dogs. Mixed breed dogs are so popular right now, and the demand is so high, that it's not a surprise that breeders are starting to purposefully mix breeds.

When I was investigating Corgi breeders I found one person who breeds Corgis, Poodles, and a few other breeds. They just started selling "Corgipoos", which I'm sure you can guess, means they crossed their Corgis and Poodles. But they also sold purebreed Corgis and Poodles. They weren't a backyard breeder, they were(as far as I could tell) an established breeder who participated in the usual showings and competitions for their purebred dogs.

On the flip side, I read somewhere that the Puggle mixed breed (pug and beagle mix) is actually a terrible idea because of the health issues both breeds are prone too. Rather than the idea that mixed breeds have no health issues, the Puggle health issues compound each other and make for a very unhealthy breed. I don't know if it's true, but it stands to reason that mixing two wrongs don't make a right.

I hear what you're saying, and I fully support adopting dogs from shelters(I'm actually planning to get a shelter dog if/when I'm ready for a second one), but I don't think you should only adopt dogs through shelters. Most shelter dogs deserve good homes, but they are not always stable, and they are not for everyone.

It's definitely an interesting topic, I wouldn't mind reasearching more about at a later time.

Jenna Z said...

It is a very interesting topic. As far as health problems, a hybrid has the same chance of inheriting each parent's flaws as it does if it were purebred. It is no more or less likely to inherit one or many issues that the parents carry than a purebred offspring. Which is why I think designer dogs are a crock. A whatever-poo could inherit the poodles more allergy-friendly coat or it could inherit the other parent's characteristic coat. A puggle could have an aloof pug's attitude or it could end up with a hyperactive, super-nose beagle personality. There's just no way to determine what you'll end up with.

As far as Cavachons, I can guarantee they bark. Cavaliers bark, Bichons bark, why wouldn't their offspring? As far as hypoallergenic, IMHO this is merely a selling point to push dogs and less a fact as there is no 100% hypoallergenic dog.

I definitely agree that shelter dogs are not for everyone. The point is a mixed breed from a breeder or pet shop has one purpose, to make that person or shop money. Some people are ok with that. I happen to be not so ok with breeding and selling puppies purely for profit. I suppose I sounds sort of elitist but there is already a supply of mixed breed dogs and that is accidental breedings. For those that can't find the characteristics they want in in their local shelter, breed rescues offers an opportunity for anyone to research and choose a breed that fits their lifestyle. I hope I don't sound combative, I am very passionate about what some people put dogs through just so they can make a buck. You sound intelligent and I am not riding my high horse or trying to sound smarter or anything like that. As you are getting a corgi, we are kindred spirits, so I hope you enjoy lively discussions!

Are you on Corgi-L? I'd really suggest it if not, there are awesome people always willing to help out with great information!

JuLo said...

You know, now that I think about it, is there a breed not known for barking? It seems like all the ones I've come across are barkers. Of course, it varies dog to dog. I guess because I've been looking at smaller breeds (since I've been looking into dogs that will spend most of their time indoors). The non-barkers tend to be the larger breeds I guess?

I'm definitely conflicted on the shelter vs. breeder subject, though I've read enough to never buy so much as a comb from a pet shop. I think rescuing a dog from a shelter is a noble and humane thing to do, and chances are, you would get a wonderful and loving companion. But I also think that when you buy from a breeder, you know what you're getting (to a certain degree, of course). I've come across breeders that do what they do not just for the physical betterment of the breed, but also for the betterment of the personality of the breed. If you bought a mixed or purebred dog from a breeder you would have access to their history, and you could meet the parents of the dog to get an idea of what the personality of your puppy might be. When you get a dog from a shelter you don't know the history of the dog, you don't know if its parents were healthy, or what their personalities were like. So it's definitely a trade off. Plus from what I've read, breeders who are in the business to make money are really in the wrong line of work. Breeding is so expensive, that they really don't make much money, and sometimes end up losing money. Of course, not all breeders are the same, and some cut corners in order to, like you said, make a buck. Those are not the breeders I'm referring to, of course. That's why my plan is to basically do both.

My husband and I did enough research to know we wanted a Corgi puppy, but Corgi are by no means a popular breed, so there was very little chance of finding a Corgi puppy in a shelter in a reasonable amount of time (I've even been looking). And since I definitely want a puppy (just because it's my first dog and I want the whole experience), I decided it would be worth it to just go through a breeder. But for our next dog (I'm sure we'll eventually get another), I think we'll probably go with a rescue dog.

I'm definitely an advocate of choosing the right breed for you. That's what got me started on this topic in the first place. I've been researching Corgis for almost a year, and I don't even have one yet! I do enjoy lively discussions, so please feel free to comment any time! I'm far from an expert and I will be the first person to admit that I might have stuff wrong. I'm always open to people telling me so. :)

I've seen the site, Corgi-L, I think I may have joined. I'll definitely check it out further. It's been a busy few weeks, so I haven't been able to really dig into the message boards I've found. Thanks for the tip!

Jenna Z said...

It makes me so happy to hear you talk about all the research you've done! A puppy store recently opened up in our area and in the few months since it's opened I've gotten so bogged down by all the stories of people getting caught up in the moment and buying an impulse puppy. I teach obedience and some of these puppies are now making their way into classes (ours and other people's) with both health and behavior issues and their owners are just completely oblivious and incompetent. So I am overjoyed to read your story and how much you are preparing and really actively learning!

I am not against breeders. On the contrary, I believe in responsible breeding to guarantee the soundness and continuation of the breeder's particular breed. But I don't believe mixed breeds fit into that. The popularity of them right now, as you mentioned, for several reasons, most of which of simply misinformed public believing they are healthier, shedless, barkless, hypoallergenic wonder-breeds and this has some people breeding them to make a few dollars. No respectable breeder of purebred dogs that I know would put their dogs at risk (which you do each time you raise puppies) by having a litter of mixed breed dogs. And you're right, most responsible breeders barely break even raising puppies. Which begs the question if the only reason to breed -poos is to make a profit and responsible breeder rarely make a profit, just how responsible are those breeders? If any of those breeders were members of a breed club, they would be violating the code of ethics, that's for sure.

Corgis are actually more popular than I thought they were when I had my first one 10 or so years ago. At least, they're higher on the AKC list of breeds with the most registered dogs. But that doesn't mean ANYone will know what it is when you take it on a walk! There is one "barkless" breed, the Basenji. I've known three and they do make noise but it's less of a harsh bark and more of a beagle-ish howl of sorts. They call it a yodel.
Do you read Alicia's blog She's been giving us all our Corgi puppy fix as they just got an adorable little Cardi girl! (Sadly, her previous Cardi passed away recently.)

JuLo said...

Yeah, there's a puppy store in the mall right by my house. I always torture myself by going in, knowing that I would never purchase one. Lately, I've just stopped going in all together. It makes me sad to see them all crammed in those little boxes, and a lot of times they have ear mites. There's signs all over the store that say "we do not buy from puppy mills", which I find completely hilarious, since one of the basic definitions of a puppy mill is people who sell their puppies to pet shops.

You teach obedience? How cool! I might hit you up for some tips when I finally get my puppy. ;) I just read a book called Katz on Dogs, I'm in the process of writing my review of it. It had a lot of interesting points on why people get dogs, what their motivations are, and why they don't train them enough. It was pretty interesting.

I saw that Corgis were something like the 25th most popular breed in 2005. I was so surprised! I've only known one person who had a Corgi, and most people I talk to don't even know what they are. How are they so popular? It actually makes me feel better about getting a Corgi. If they're so popular, but I rarely see them show up at the local shelters, that must mean their owners love them and never give them up!

I've seen Alicia's blog through the link in your blog, actually. :) I saw her knew Cardigan puppy. Man, Cardigans are the cutest puppies! I really like the name she chose: Clover. I might steal it!

Jenna Z said...

I think Corgis are way up there in the list of most registered dogs because the thing to remember is, that figure is the registered dogs which means the people who went to the trouble of sending in the paperwork. Corgis are VERY popular in many sports and with purebred dog people but maybe not so popular with the general public. We corgi people actually like this because it means our dogs won't end up in shelters in droves like Labs and such. There is a joke in corgi circles that there is an organization called the Lesser Corgi Society whose job it is to tell everyone who's thinking about getting a corgi about how loud, sheddy, demanding, bossy, anti-social with other dogs, heel-nipping, and stubborn they can be. You know, all the things we LOVE about them but that joe-shmoe wouldn't dream of putting up with! Then if they still want one (like you!) they pass and are allowed into the fold.

I teach obedience to our county 4-Hers! I'm by no means a professional, strictly amateur but I've been training since I was in junior high (with a break in the middle for college during which I had no dog and was quite sad about being out of the loop). Sully and I compete in AKC Obedience and Rally and APDT Rally. And we're training for WCFO Freestyle. All my dog friends are really into agility but Sully just doesn't have the inclination and I am not exactly so coordinated at high speeds. :)

I have not shopped at the mall since the puppy store opened and we have all written letters stating as much to the mall. All they care about is what brings in the money and pays the rent so they've lost my business for good. I'd rather drive 45 minutes to the mall in the next town than support them. After having seen papers from dogs from the store, I know for a fact that at least some of them came from puppy mills and yet they continue to tell people they have "built excellent relationships with small local breeders." How are average people supposed to know any better that what they say isn't true? And there's nothing we can do because there is no real definition of a puppy mill as far as the law is concerned so they're not misrepresenting their product. Makes me so mad!

JuLo said...

Hmm, that's a good point. Corgis are probably more popular in the competition world, and labs and retrievers are more popular as family pets. Good point!

From what I've read about Corgis, I think ours will fit right in with my husband and I. I'm also loud, sheddy, stubborn, demanding, bossy, and anti-social. We'll get along great! ;)

What is rally exactly? I'd like to look into doing obedience, agility, or herding with my dog, depending on what s/he likes and if we have a good time doing it. But it sounds like it'd be really fun, and I'd like to make sure my Corgi feels like s/he has "work to do". I've read that Corgis who don't feel like they're doing a job can get bored and "give themselves a job".

Unfortunately, where I live all the malls in the area are owned by the same company, so boycotting one wouldn't really hurt the company either way.

Anonymous said...

I have a cavachon and the only time that he barks is if you youre playing rough with him...he was very easy to train and teach tricks and hes a weird thing that he does is that he sprints for like 10 min. everyday although we take him on walks and run every day

Anonymous said...

Hey, Nice sight. I am a PW Corgi breeder and recently bread one of my females to a toy poodle. The puppies turned out absolutely adorable. Not many Corgi poos on the planet. With all the designer dogs today, I thought it would be interesting to see what they would be like. I am pleasantly surprised by what we got. Oh and by the way I understand that the Laboradoodles, and goldendoodles are now AKC recognized breeds, according to a friend of mine anyhow. Thanks for the opportunity to blog.

CorgiGirl said...

Would breeding a pembroke with a cardigan be considered a mixed breed, and would it reduce health issues?